For next time...

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For next time...

Post  Jack Napier on Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:24 am

Did some research and things I should remember for next time are:

1 - I *CAN* sneak attack with shocking grasp (or any spell with an attack roll) when the enemy is flat-footed or flanked. That way I could've rather easily hit Auroc with that flanking attack on the stairs for serious damage.

2 - I should also be using my Weapon Trickery feat when making my touch attacks with spells like Shocking Grasp. I should not be using STR, but rather CHA along with my BAB to make touch attacks. This maybe would've made me able to shock the Quasit rather than miss and get further poisoned.


The lesson in all of this? Know your shit and your character kicks more ass and won't be dragging his formerly dexterous feet towards the big boss. Smile
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Re: For next time...

Post  Winter on Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:37 am

Matt and I were kinda dumbfounded on point #1, gotta remember to use your touch spell instead of the rapier when attacking the dude in shiny armor with a shield!
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Also, Spell-Like Abilities

Post  Jack Napier on Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:56 am

Maybe I'm feeling a little sore after losing 7 points of DEX to poison, but...

That Quasit's invisibility "at will" as a free action is way over-powered and as it turns out doesn't follow the pathfinder rules. Arguing this at the table would've taken too much time and I appreciate Matt's quick ruling in order to keep the game going, but for future reference (and encounters):

At will only means unlimited times, like a cantrip. It still takes the same amount of time to cast a spell like ability as to cast a spell... thus a standard action.

Furthermore, consider the following: The Arcane Trickster at 9th level of the prestige class can use greater invisibility as a free action for a number of rounds equal to her Arcane Trickster level (so 9 rounds a day) The character would have to be atleast level 17 to do this. Why can a monster designed to fight level 4 characters do something like this?

She'll still be a formidable opponent even if we don't have to ready actions to hit her. Being able to turn invisible as a standard action unlimited times a day would be something any sneaky creature would drool over.

That said, her spells are persumably used up for the day and I want her dead as soon as we get back to gaming. Lose 7 DEX just before going after the big baddie? DIIIIIIE QUASIT!!!


See the rules:

-=-=-=
From the Player's Guide

Use Special Ability
Using a special ability is usually a standard action, but whether it is a standard action, a full-round action, or not an action at all is defined by the ability.

Spell-Like Abilities (Sp)
Using a spell-like ability works like casting a spell in that it requires concentration and provokes attacks of opportunity. Spell-like abilities can be disrupted. If your concentration is broken, the attempt to use the ability fails, but the attempt counts as if you had used the ability. The casting time of a spell-like ability is 1 standard action, unless the ability description notes otherwise.

Using a Spell-Like Ability on the Defensive: You may attempt to use a spell-like ability on the defensive, just as with casting a spell. If the concentration check (DC 15 + double the spell's level) fails, you can't use the ability, but the attempt counts as if you had used the ability.

Supernatural Abilities (Su)
Using a supernatural ability is usually a standard action (unless defined otherwise by the ability's description). Its use cannot be disrupted, does not require concentration, and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

Extraordinary Abilities (Ex)
Using an extraordinary ability is usually not an action because most extraordinary abilities automatically happen in a reactive fashion. Those extraordinary abilities that are actions are usually standard actions that cannot be disrupted, do not require concentration, and do not provoke attacks of opportunity.

-=-=-
From Beastiary:

Spell-Like Abilities (Sp)

Spell-like abilities are magical and work just like spells (though they are not spells and so have no verbal, somatic, focus, or material components). They go away in an antimagic field and are subject to spell resistance if the spell the ability is based on would be subject to spell resistance.

A spell-like ability usually has a limit on how often it can be used. A constant spell-like ability or one that can be used at will has no use limit; unless otherwise stated, a creature can only use a constant spell-like ability on itself. Reactivating a constant spell-like ability is a swift action. Using all other spell-like abilities is a standard action unless noted otherwise, and doing so provokes attacks of opportunity. It is possible to make a concentration check to use a spell-like ability defensively and avoid provoking an attack of opportunity, just as when casting a spell. A spell-like ability can be disrupted just as a spell can be. Spell-like abilities cannot be used to counterspell, nor can they be counterspelled.

For creatures with spell-like abilities, a designated caster level defines how difficult it is to dispel their spell-like effects and to define any level-dependent variables (such as range and duration) the abilities might have. The creature’s caster level never affects which spell-like abilities the creature has; sometimes the given caster level is lower than the level a spellcasting character would need to cast the spell of the same name. If no caster level is specified, the caster level is equal to the creature’s Hit Dice. The saving throw (if any) against a spell-like ability is 10 + the level of the spell the ability resembles or duplicates + the creature’s Charisma modifier.

Some spell-like abilities duplicate spells that work differently when cast by Characters of different classes. A monster’s spell-like abilities are presumed to be the sorcerer/wizard versions. If the spell in question is not a sorcerer/wizard spell, then default to cleric, druid, bard, paladin, and ranger, in that order.

Format: At will—burning hands (DC 13); Location: Spell-Like Abilities.
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Re: For next time...

Post  Winter on Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:19 pm

I agree the at will immediate action invis is pretty broken at this level of play. I think the dex damage should stand because I don't think we should revise in game history unless it's something which clearly should not have happened (like a paladin executing prisoners!) and it isn't clear the quasit couldn't have poisoned Jack anyway.

I think for future sessions though these "holdover" abilities from 3.5 need to be examined and brought into line with Pathfinder's sense of game balance, preferably before they're used. I can understand that monsters might have some extra surprises for us but, although I enjoyed 3.5 immensely, I'll be the first to admit there are a lot of straight up broken rules in it.
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Re: For next time...

Post  Jack Napier on Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:51 pm

I don't mind if the dex damage stays, I will just have to be be extra careful and sneaky in dealing with future threats. I just want that Quasit dead. Smile

Possible revision, if we want to fix things and give Jack a chance to not be poisoned or less poisoned, we could reset time back to when the party approached the stairs and were approached by the Quasit from behind. Re-do the encounter and see what happens? Up to Matt, of course, it could go by fast... the alternative is to have Jack say, "Listen I just spent the past 30 seconds fighting poison and disarming this switch to run away, but I would really like to go back out there and fight the Quasit. I think we can get it this time."
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Missing with a melee touch spell

Post  Jack Napier on Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:57 am

Something else I need to remember and interesting for any other people who fight with melee touch spells. Missing the touch attack means that you don't "touch" and therefore do not lose the spell. Your hand/wandtip would still be ready to use on any subsequent rounds without requiring a second casting to try again.

This leads to another interesting bit:

If shocking hands is cast normally, and the caster's hand was ready discharge the spell onto some unsuspecting victim, they would lose that charged hand upon casting an other spell.

For a wand I'd say you could cast another spell from another source without losing the charge on the wandtip as the wand itself does the casting, not the wielder.
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